But then a little digging reveals a few inconvenient facts. A 1976 study by the Colorado Division of Water found that this area was plagued with gas in the water problems back then. And it was naturally occurring.
As the report stated there was “troublesome amounts of methane” in the water decades before fracking began. It seems that in geographical areas gas has always been in the water.
But Josh Fox knew this and chose not to put it in Gasland."
So basically the key premise behind Gasland was a fiction.
You may want to look a little deeper into this rather than one pretty lame google search.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 10:17am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
I'm reading through your article now. I have a question, under what conditions would you consider coal seam gas recovery to be safe? To be honest the Gasland flaming tap case has far too much drilling history to say clearly its the gas extraction for me.
Do you have documents that sort the issues by each drilling site? Makes it that much easier to look at each as a distinct incident. thanks.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:11am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Answers: Away from people, agriculture, sensitive lands and water resources. No, there are thousands of wells and we're volunteers.
I give up posting links to this site mate. I spend the time writing a response with links as requested and you filter tells me I'm swearing or spamming - even with one link. Also, if you get the code wrong you lose everything rather than a second challenge! I really give up. This blog is useless!
Google "England suspends coal seam gas fracking" and "Class actions shake BHP" and "AGL warned over coal seam well leak" and "60 Minutes Undermined" (watch the last one for flaming bores in Queensland)
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:38am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Okay - thanks for trying, I'll fix up the filter, far too much spam scripts running around.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:49am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
What a foolish, unreaseached, biased article. The damage is already being done, which is being investigated by who - oh the industry paid scientists and specialists. These are not scare tactics - this is people's lives and environmental disasters that are happening all over the world. Countries such as France & Germany have banned it - the UK have a hold on it as they believe it's causing earthquakes ..... go search properly, you will find.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 10:32am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Ok, I checked the UK searching for 'coal seam gas' against UK google. Got a press release from Eden Energy confirming approval to drill two days ago and an article from the start of year stating the Tyndall Centre want to ban coal seam gas extraction citing earthquakes.. Seems to be going ahead in the UK from the time line.
Basically, point me directly to incidents of problems with the extraction that show the fundamental principal is unsound and I'll change my mind.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:00am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Here's a recent one (have to post them separately due to your spam rules so I'm not doing many)
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:26am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Ah, I found the original article from BBC Lancashire. Looks like they stopped due to the possibility of a link between an earthquake and the drilling and extraction - which seems very sensible to me to see if the two were related.
Although given how 'Swiss Cheese' some parts of the UK are with old mine workings there could be other causes - I remember years ago a massive hole opened up in the middle of Norwich due to very old mine works no one knew was there...
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:40am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
CSG is not the only way to obtain gas or energy. It is not 'clean', it certainly isn't environmentally or socially friendly. There are many issues with CSG and especially fracking. GetUp! have only just put out their support, asked for by people affected directly and those who support them and are concerned by CSG. Conservatives, liberals, conservationists, farmers, urban and rural towns are joined on this issue. It is not a 'fad' or 'fashionable', it is very serious for some.
There are real problems for real people, now, in Australia and overseas.
I have seen the 'Debunking of Gasland' put out by the gas industry and it has been debunked in turn. There are too many risks and unknowns associated with the 'gas boom'. There is lots of information out there, but you won't get any 'bad news' from the government or industry. There have been accidents, pollution, contamination, blowouts, spills, health issues, charges laid against companies, water depletion and lives adversely affected.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 10:34am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Hi Mr Eco Guy, You obviously do not live on the land? I do... Besides Wiki & Google, has your exhaustive search found its way to any of the solid media reports available? For example: The Four Corners report on CSG in Queensland! Apac on Fox/Austar for ongoing CSG Forums? These are forums with real real landowners & farmers asking the questions! Etc etc You will find methane & polluted water is only part of the issue, For more info try googling more than Wiki...! Someone coming under the banner of ECO should already have this knowledge? Well going by your Eco Guide & extensive research, the thousands of Australian landowners & farmers affected by the rapid expansion of CSG have nothing to fear & must be wrong on all fronts, which means you must be right because you are "THE ECO GUY" !
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:08am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
yes Brett, if farmers are not being adequately compensated for having wells dug all over their land - that is a problem and something that should be properly addressed. Also some direct links would be helpful, I would like to understand this more.
But I want to focus right down on the actual act of getting the methane out of the ground and looking at that in its own right and when it is environmentally viable.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:22am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Please see this article from Four Corners. Also check four corners video
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:47am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Here is the link to multiple streams on four corners. Work from the top down, it does give all points of view including scientific.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:52am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Try again this way:
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 12:21pm probably from Australia Reply to this comment
So you do a google search and suddenly you're an authoprity on the subject? Do some proper research then come back and speak to us. I live near gas wells, take a look at how careful these companies are, this is near my house, do you want to live in a gas field like me? well do nothing and you will.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:24am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Your video URL got chopped, I've put in my link above.
The video mentions something about floods - is that what caused the problems or where they there in the beginning?
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:35am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Hi Eco Guy, you say in regard to pollution from CSG " ...unless proven otherwise it looks like coal seam gas extraction could be a step in the right direction to reduce our environmental impact ..." what about looking at it another way - until CSG extraction has been proven to be SAFE to the environment, and that the extraction methods are proven to have LESS carbon footprint than coal (it might burn cleaner but getting it out is very dirty and destructive indeed), let's just leave it alone and concentrate on developing and implementing sustainable and renewable energy sources. there is plenty of evidence and information (if you google just a eeny weeny bit more) of the destruction and damage that CSG extraction inflicts on the environment and health. there is mostly industry rhetoric supporting CSG as clean. CSG is just another FOSSIL FUEL in finite supply, so we shouldn't be relying on a dinosaur to get us out of this problem because we'll just be digging ourselves a great big dirty black hole to fall in to in another few years. the issues surrounding CSG are very real and very serious, and it demands greater scrutiny and research than is demonstrated in your article. for the sake of us all, please pursue this issue a bit further and get the real dirt facts. thanks
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 11:32am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
I can live without air for three minutes, I can live without water for three days, I can live without food for three weeks, I can live without coal seam gas forever. Our nation's food and water security are far too important to be destroyed by an industry that self regulates. Talk to the Collins' from Chinchilla and see how they and there farm are affected, then talk to Dayne Pratzky from the Tara Estates and see how his life is affected - engine noise/ lighting 24/7... take yourself out there and have a look. I have.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 1:01pm probably from Australia Reply to this comment
Agreed self regulation is not the way to control and monitor a business which is so tied into the land, literally; but that gas has a high monetary value and some business sooner or later will try to mine it.... I'd focus on fixing the regulation.
ON Tue, 16 Aug 11, 10:28pm probably from Australia Reply to this comment
From a scientific perspective (I am a 5-decade career biological chemist and after 40 years still teaching agricultural science students at a major Australian university), coal seam gas (CSG) developments should be stopped for three major reasons as set out below..
1. Coal seam gas exploitation despoils and depletes nature, agriculture and aquifers.
2. According to data from the WBGU that advises the German Government on climate change, a 75% chance of avoiding 2C temperature rise means global zero emissions by 2050 and no more than 600 billion tonnes of CO2 emitted in the interim. Australia had already used up its ”fair share” of this terminal global greenhouse gas (GHG) pollution budget by mid-2011. Accordingly, the best scientific advice is that we should be stopping existing coal and gas extraction and certainly not be developing new avenues for polluting the atmosphere.
3. Methane (most of natural gas) leaks and is 105 times worse than CO2 as a GHG on a 20 year time frame and taking aerosol impacts into account. Significant methane leakage means, for example, that with existing power plants in Victoria, Australia, at a 3.3% systemic gas leakage (the US average) burning gas for power is roughly as dirty GHG-wise as burning coal and at 7.9% leakage (as from fracking-derived gas in the US) burning gas for power can be twice as dirty GHG-wise as burning coal.
For a detailed, documented analysis see my carefully researched article “3 reasons the World must stop coal seam gas (CSG, coalbed gas, coalbed methane”, Bellaciao, 22 October 2011: http://bellaciao.org/en/spip.php?article21302 .
ON Sat, 22 Oct 11, 2:04am probably from Australia Reply to this comment
your second point is quite interesting yet absolutely impossible to implement. How can we reduce global emissions by 2050 to zero, China certainly is not going to stop its emissions if we stop selling our coal - they will just buy it from someone else to our financial disadvantage. Even if we do zero our own emissions, how much Co2 will have being burnt in supplying the equipment to allow us to do that??
Also the WBGU are a government funded think tank on climate change - nothing in their mission statement indicates that they are required to be base line objective and realistic in their analysis and funded research. Also I see no Cost benefit analysis figures, i.e. how much is would cost to go to zero emissions? Information like this is important to make properly qualified decisions.
Note: I do care for the planet, just that we only have finite resources to do finite actions - so doing actions with global intent based on weak analysis is just bad decision making to me. There is a real danger of unintended consequences.
ON Mon, 24 Oct 11, 3:23am probably from United States Reply to this comment
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